“Beating Death Row: How a Smile Saved a Soul” ft. Charlie "The Chaplain"

In this powerful episode recorded at the Billy Graham Training Center in North Carolina, Omar Calvillo sits down with “Charlie the Chaplain,” a man whose testimony reads like a chapter straight out of the book of Acts.

Charlie shares how his life was radically changed inside a prison cell in 1992 - not through force, violence, or fear, but through the unexpected peace on the face of a young man facing the death penalty. What started as an attempt to beat someone up became the moment God broke through decades of anger, racism, and pain… and saved him.

Their story comes full circle decades later when Charlie finds himself baptizing the very man who led him to Christ - after 33 years on death row.

You’ll also hear:

• The life-changing impact of Kairos Prison Ministry
• How love, cookies, and handwritten letters soften the hardest hearts
• Miracles happening behind bars every single week
• The global reach of Kairos and how you can get involved
• A heartfelt prayer for those on death row and everyone listening

This is an episode about redemption, reconciliation, and the God who writes stories too perfect for fiction.

Learn more about Kairos: https://kairosprisonministry.org/

Learn more about Christian Chaplains & Coaching: https://www.christianchaplains.org/

Scripture referenced: Revelation 12:11, Matthew 4:16

If you’ve ever doubted whether God still performs miracles… this episode is your confirmation.

Transcript

0:15

From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for its crime and violence. On this podcast, we will be sharing stories of redemption from individuals raised in the tough streets of Chicago and from around the country. Some of them were gang members, drug dealers, incarcerated victims, and perpetrators of violence. Listen to my guests as they share their experiences, struggles, trauma, but also the strength, hope, faith and perseverance, these have developed in them to keep pushing and moving forward in life. Tune in to hear how their lives have gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong.

Omar: 0:56

Um, hello everyone and welcome to another episode of From Wrong to Strong. I'm your host. My name's Omar Calvillo. I'm out here right now at the Billy Graham Training Center in North Carolina. I'm blessed to be part of this ministry. It's called Christian Chaplains and Coaching. Uh, for many of you that don't know, I, I became an ordained chaplain through this organization at the beginning of this year, and it, honestly, it has blessed me, uh, immensely. They actually bless me. With the, the ticket to be out here. Amen. So, I, I just had to put a minimal upfront cost. Basically I put a down payment and man this ministry blessed me and I'm, I was able, I've been able to connect with many chaplains, uh, from all over the United States and some from even the world. I believe there's some here from Africa, India. Uh, Canada. So this, this ministry has only been around for seven years and they're growing in leaps and bounds. And here with me, uh, next to me, I got my brother, his name is Charlie. We're gonna go by first name only. And, uh, uh, uh, pastor, uh, uh, I mean Chaplain, Jim Kirkland called him Charlie Chaplain. Basically Charlie, the chaplain. Welcome to the podcast brother.

Charlie: 2:01

How you doing, Omar? Good to have you. Good to be with you, man.

Omar: 2:04

Yes, sir. So, uh, um, I, I met this brother here. Uh, he shared a testimony earlier. Um, I, I guess we'll start there.'cause, uh, we were, um, we just finished one of the lessons. One of the, speakers spoke and the brother, requested prayer for, those that were on death road for the, the chaplains or ministering on death row. And, and I'll turn it over to you brother. Could, could you share with those that are. The two with our audience. What prompted you to ask the, the prayer request?

Charlie: 2:30

Well, I've been in the Kairos program now, actually since 1994, where I did my first Kairos as a uh, candidate. I was. Under, I was arrested, I was in prison. And, uh, that wa I had just given my life to the Lord. Uh, OCT Well, November 22nd, 1992 was the, was the exact date that I gave my life to the Lord. I'll never forget that. And, uh, I was in prison and I got to do a kairos. I did my prison time. I had to do, I did five years, got out, got stayed involved with Kairos. Kairos is kind of, uh, it's definitely my ministry and I've been, I've been at it for a really long time, and I have a friend who's a. Yard pastor at Donovan Prison where I, where I do my ministry at. And he flew out Monday as well to Texas and I don't remember the name of the prison. Yeah. But um, he is doing a kairos there on death row. And it's very different than the regular Kairos. The men have to stay in their cells and they literally walk up to the men in their cells and and minister to each one of them as they go in the cell, and they will sing altogether in, in this, in this pod. And they, we, they videotape it and it's just amazing. It's just really beautiful. And he's, uh, there up until, until tomorrow doing this chiros on death row. And what better place to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ than on death row?

Omar: 4:11

Right?

Charlie: 4:12

So that's why I got up this morning and I prayed. I asked the, the, I had. Almost 200 chaplains and pastors there. And I said, you know, we, we, we just had a talk from the, the, the CEO of Kairos International. And I said, what better time to, to pray for a program that's going on as we spoke?

Omar: 4:32

Yes.

Charlie: 4:33

And we just got up there and we just, I just, uh, I, they asked me. I didn't want to get up there, but yes. But nonetheless, I went up there and we prayed. And, uh, we just lifted this program up and I'm, I'm waiting to hope to hear back from my friend. Uh, when I get back to the hotel, I want to call him again. See if he, see if he felt the power as 200 pastors prayed for the program that's going on. And if he felt the men felt anything different.'cause because that stuff is real. Yeah. And it goes through and, and, and I've seen it picked up many, many times before, so I was really looking forward to it.

Omar: 5:09

Yeah, there's a, there's definitely power and prayer having all these chaplains here, uh, in intercede. Uh, a lot of the chaplains here are involved in prison ministry. I know when they, uh, shout it out, Kairos. Man, a, a large portion. I'm, I'm guessing, I don't know, maybe 20, 25% know or have, uh, uh, participated with Kairos and, uh, it definitely sounds like they're making an impact in the prison system.

Charlie: 5:31

I've been doing this a long time, and plus being on the inside and seeing it, I can't see any better program. That exists, uh, for bringing people to Christ, especially on the inside. That's where Kairos is on the inside, but, but nothing comes close to winning their hearts by just loving on them.

Omar: 5:54

Yeah,

Charlie: 5:55

and that's the one thing that most inmates don't have is love or acceptance. The one, one of the men that I was working with a long time ago. He'd got done doing a talk after a four day kairos event, and he comes walking up to me, and he did really well. He was very intelligent. He spoke well. And as he walks up to me and I, I just patted him on his chest a couple of times and I said, you know, I'm proud of you. And he started crying and I didn't know what I did. I go, oh my goodness. You know, I didn't hit you that hard. You know what, what? I go, what's wrong? What's wrong? And through the tears. And it took a minute. And through the tears, he said, nobody's ever told me they've been proud of me before.

Omar: 6:42

Mm.

Charlie: 6:43

And it brought him to tears.

Omar: 6:45

Yes.

Charlie: 6:46

And he sit there and you go, this guy never had a chance.

Omar: 6:50

Yeah.

Charlie: 6:50

If you're 36 years old and you're hearing that someone's proud of you for the first time, what chance did you ever have of making it in the in, in the legal world?

Omar: 6:59

Yeah.

Charlie: 6:59

You're broken.

Omar: 7:00

Yes.

Charlie: 7:01

You're seriously broken.

Omar: 7:02

Yeah.

Charlie: 7:03

And God's using him right now anyhow. He's, he's one of the pillars in the church over on Echo Yard,

Omar: 7:07

man.

Charlie: 7:08

Amen. And he's, and he's just rocking it. And, uh, I'm so proud. In fact, they, he's my, he's now my adopted son.

Omar: 7:14

Oh, wow.

Charlie: 7:14

Lemme get that. I, I adopted a 38-year-old man.

Omar: 7:17

Hey, why not?

Charlie: 7:17

It's, it's the best way to go. He. They, they don't cost you anything by the time they're 38.

Omar: 7:22

You know what, Charlie, right now you mentioned love about some people never encounter love. Now, we were talking earlier and you shared your, your coming to Christ moment. Uh, I know right now you're currently involved in Karios, you're, you're ministering to those on the inside. But, uh, share with our audience. How do you come to faith in Jesus Christ?

Charlie: 7:42

I went into a man's cell to beat him up. He was black, he was smiling, and my case was better than his and I wasn't smiling

Omar: 7:53

for, for those that don't know, uh, what ethnicity are you? I mean, this is only audio, so they need to

7:58

know.

Charlie: 7:58

Oh, I, I'm just a poor white boy.

Omar: 8:01

Alright. Alright. They gotta bring context to the story, you know? Yeah,

Charlie: 8:05

I get it. Here

Omar: 8:05

we go. All

Charlie: 8:05

right. I get it all. And I was a poor white boy that grew up in a city where the blacks hated the whites and whites hated the blacks. And that was just the way it was. And you know, you just, I didn't even think about it. So I went into this guy's cell and I threw him up against the wall, and I told him, I'm gonna beat the hell outta you. But before I do, I want to know why you got that stupid grin on your face. This young black man looked back at me. Didn't even blink started telling me about Jesus and for some reason, well, I know the reason now, but at the time I didn't know, understand the reason. I never touched him. I backed off of him. And he just kept on telling me about Jesus. I wound up listening to this man for three hours, got all done. I walked out of his cell and I walked back up into mine. This man's facing the death penalty. He was 21 years old. I was looking at 25 to life, so I was in serious trouble too. I was 39 years old. And my entire life had been one big war.

Omar: 9:12

Hmm.

Charlie: 9:13

My fault. I, I put myself there and I actually thrived off of war. I laid in my bunk all that night thinking about what this guy told me. That heaven thing, I ain't buying that story. It sounds like a fairytale hell. I got that one covered. I'm, I'm responsible for half the population there anyhow, and that forgiveness thing, I don't need forgiveness. If I went and socked you in the face, I did that on purpose. What do I need to be forgiven for that? For I, I wanted to hit you, I wanted to hurt you. I wanted to do whatever I was gonna do to you. I don't need forgiveness for that. If I accidentally stepped on your toe, I would say, oh, excuse me. Forgive me. Not if I smashed your face in. I had no problem with that. But the one thing I couldn't get around my head was how A 20, he was almost 21 at the time. How a 20-year-old kid facing the death penalty had peace on his face, and I just could not figure that out. And I laid in my bunk all night long trying to wrap my head around that. The morning came, I didn't sleep at all. The doors popped open on the cell. I ran down the line, ran up into this guy's cell again. I got nose to nose with him again. I said, but this time I go, I want what you got? What do I gotta do? That was November 22nd, 1992. The man's name was Laton Laton Weaver. And, um. He led me to the Lord and as he led me to the Lord on, and I, and I got done and with, with saying the sinner's prayer, and I broke down into this most uncontrolled crying that I've ever done in my life as, as all that sin was just. Pouring onto me. And the very guy that I was gonna beat the crap out of the day before held me in his arms and let me cry out all this pain and sin and hurt that I had inside of me. And he just held me. And that just blew my mind. Laton and I wound up becoming good friends. He got convicted. He went to, he went to death row, uh, in San Quentin. I got convicted. I got convicted of just doing a, uh, I got nine years. I got a nine year sentence. At that time in California you did about half that. So I wound up doing like a five years on the nine. I get out going, life goes on, I get married, I'm following Jesus. I. By the way, like prison was like, you know how Paul had his time in the, in the, in the, in the wilderness with Jesus. Yeah. Being taught by the Lord Jesus Christ. Yeah. I had mine too. I was just on a yard back in prison. Got

Omar: 12:01

it.

Charlie: 12:01

I was paying Southern California Bible College,$10 a unit to be learning second and third year college classes. And I'm, and I'm just growing in God's grace and love. And while I'm in there, I mean, it was, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Literally. I get out, I wind up meeting my wife. We, we, we get married in 2005. I, my wife and I flew up to San Francisco to, to, I wanted to visit Laton and take my wife to San Francisco and I went over there to visit him and visiting on death row

Omar: 12:37

real quick. That's about over. How many years was that? Since 1982 to 2005, right?

Charlie: 12:42

Yeah.

Omar: 12:43

With 13 years.

Charlie: 12:45

Yeah.

Omar: 12:45

Okay. Yeah.

Charlie: 12:45

Yeah. Somewhere around there.

Omar: 12:46

Uhhuh.

Charlie: 12:47

So I, I go and see Laton and visiting somebody on death row is very bizarre. Everything is the condemned. The condemned visiting unit, the condemned toilet, the condemned drinking fountain, everything says condemned on it. And I sat and I wondered as I was walking into the building, I wonder how many men work here that don't even realize that they're condemned. Two.

Omar: 13:16

Got it.

Charlie: 13:18

So I meet with Laan, and Laan tells me this story. He tells me this story about he had had it on death row. He was right up to his neck, didn't want to go anymore. His dad had died. There was no one left in his family. He just wasn't gonna, he couldn't go on anymore, so he decided he was gonna kill himself. He had the sheet laying on the bed that he was gonna hang himself with. They used to have a thing called the, the, the 8 45 unlock, where they'd pop all the doors and, and, and death row. Everything is on a tier. So you could walk the tier. You couldn't go to other tier, right? But you could walk your tier and you could go and get a shot of coffee, get a soup, you'd take care of your business, whatever. Latan just sat there and he just leaned on the door of his cell while all this 15 minute unlock was going on. This white guy walks. To him, which is highly unusual'cause Death Row is even more segregated than mainline. And this white guy walks up to him and he was having some issue in his life. Something was going on. Family don't know exactly what it was, but someone had told him that Laton was a good godly man and he may be able to help.

Omar: 14:29

Yeah.

Charlie: 14:30

So this guy walks up to him and he tells him it's what's going on. And wan. Gives him some advice, gives him a couple of scriptures, and he prays with the guy. And, and the guy walked away in better shape than, than when he showed up.

Omar: 14:44

Yeah.

Charlie: 14:45

15 minute unlock was over. They closed the door behind him. He walks into his cell, he looks at the sheet, he looks up to God and says, you're still using me.

Omar: 14:54

Hmm.

Charlie: 14:55

He didn't hang himself.

Omar: 14:56

Amen.

Charlie: 14:57

So about three days later, he was wondering how this guy's doing. He was wondering, you know, what's happening with this guy? Wanna check up on him? See, you know. The situation's gotten any better. And so he starts walking the tier, looking for this guy asking around, asking that he didn't know his name but he, but he described him, went to everybody on the tier. The guy wasn't there. Wow. Didn't exist. You don't disappear from death row.

Omar: 15:28

Yeah.

Charlie: 15:29

You don't get transferred off of death row.

Omar: 15:31

Yeah.

Charlie: 15:31

You get carried off of death row.

Omar: 15:33

Yeah,

Charlie: 15:35

so La Juan's telling me the story. We had a great visit and that was it, 2005, last time I saw him. I'm busy, I'm doing, you know, my, my ministry going back and, you know, doing the prison and stuff. And I wound up getting ordained. Same place that you got ordained through. Okay. It's a wonderful place and I'm carrying on and, and I'm, I'm very busy at the prison I work at now. I'm on three different yards and doing various things and, and on the third Sunday of every month I go to the Delta Yard and I give the message at the six o'clock church service for the men. And they love me there and I love them there. And it's just, it's really great. I look forward to going in, you know? Yeah. And I walk in it. For the service and. Say hi to one of the guys and they say, Hey, hi Charlie. Hi Charlie. And that was kind of weird, you know, it kinda blew me off a little bit, you know? And I walk up to another guy, Hey Charlie, how you doing? And what's up? You know, like, we like every something. I go, something's wrong. What's, what's happening here? No, nothing. Everything's okay. Finally my buddy Moon, who's actually a death row inmate,'cause they closed death row on in, uh, in California about a year and a half ago, two years ago. Death row was closed down. And then what they did is they shipped out all of the inmates to the various prisons throughout California.

Omar: 16:57

So, so they, they passed, uh, like I know like in the state of Illinois, they did a memo or oratorium or something, I forget the exact word, but they basically stopped moratorium, execution moratorium. There you go. So they stopped execution. This was, is that what they did in California?

Charlie: 17:11

Yeah, for the most part. They, and they closed it up and they were trying to save money and California's broke.

Omar: 17:15

Okay.

Charlie: 17:16

So they closed up death row. They're not, and they hadn't executed anybody in 25 years either. Okay. So, I mean, they just, you know, took him up. But Laan was there for. 32 years on death row.

Omar: 17:27

Wow.

Charlie: 17:29

So anyhow, I walk around. So my buddy moon comes up to me, throws a big hug on me, and he, okay, that's, now we're a little bit better. And he looks at me, he goes, Hey, did you meet the, did you meet the new guy? Yeah. No. And I'm always excited to meet the new guy, you know, and another someone to introduce to Christ. And he walks me to the back of the chapel and there's this guy sitting there talking to somebody else. He's got his back to me, taps him on the shoulder, and it's laton. We just looked at each other and Laton didn't know why he was coming, and I didn't, I didn't know he was coming. And we just sat there for about two seconds, just speechless. And we just grabbed each other and we just hugged and we just cried. And the whole chapel was in. That's what, that's why no one wanted to look at me because they were afraid they were gonna say something, you know? Yeah. And, and the whole chapel is applauding.'cause everybody knew what was going on and they're all sitting there just, and they, because they knew my story. Yeah. And we just sat there and we just, we just cried and held each other for about six or seven minutes. It was amazing. So I get up and I, and I, I, I had latan get up and, and pray for me to open up, you know, and

Omar: 18:33

man,

Charlie: 18:34

and I, and I give the message. And to this day I don't, I don't even remember a clue of what I said.

Omar: 18:38

Yeah.

Charlie: 18:40

So it's the, the service gets over and I get out to my car and. And I call out my buddy Roger, who's the, he's the actual, uh, yard pastor on that yard. I says, Roger, Roger. I says, do you know who's on your yard? You know, I says, it's Laton Weaver. He says, it's the guy that led me to the Lord, and I'm all excited and I'm pumped, and, and I'm not even giving him a chance to talk, and I'm just going on and on. And, and finally he. I've been talking to that guy and he wants to get baptized and we're gonna baptize him next week. And then before I can even say anything, Roger goes, you gotta baptize him. And I just started crying. I'm driving home and I'm crying. Just the, the thought of that.

Omar: 19:22

Yeah.

Charlie: 19:24

So all week, you know, comes by and, and that Sunday comes up and I show up there and at the one o'clock service and there was nine guys that were gonna be baptized that day in the chapel, and they do it alphabetically and

Omar: 19:37

Okay,

Charlie: 19:39

Weaver, he's the last guy. He's the last guy in there. So he is Roger's baptizing all one after another. And he is going on and there's the chapel's full. There's. A lot of people knew what else was going on. Anyhow, a lot of people had heard about this. Yeah. And they showed up. And, um, so he, he, he, he waves for ro, for LATON to come out of the office to start walking up. Roger walks away and as Roger's walking away. I'm walking up from that at the, it was actually the front, but I'm in the, at the back and I'm walking up and Laton sees me and I'm rolling up my sleeves and he knows what's gonna happen.

Omar: 20:15

Yeah.

Charlie: 20:16

And he's just, and he just started crying it. Then I just started crying. We had a, I always had a drain, the baptism because it was full over, full of water. And I got there and, and we, and we, and I helped them into the, the baptism. No baptismal. And he, I said, you know, do you want anything to say? And, and he just shared about how special that this moment was and how he could have never dreamed in the 33 years that he had been down on death row. He couldn't even dream. That, that, that he would ever get baptized, number one. Number two, that I would be the guy baptizing the guy that led me to the Lord 33 years ago. I had the honor of baptizing on that day.

Omar: 21:06

Praise God.

Charlie: 21:07

And you can't make that story up. You know, only, only God could orchestrate such a thing to heaven. Yes. There's 33 prisons in California. You could have wound up going to any one of them.

Omar: 21:19

Yeah.

Charlie: 21:20

And he lands on the very yard that, by the way, that I just happened to be show up on once a month.

Omar: 21:24

Yes, yes. That's all him.

Charlie: 21:25

Time, chance, and random circumstances. Right. So. That was, that was, I mean, that was probably one of the highlights of my entire chaplaincy, for sure.

Omar: 21:37

Amen.

Charlie: 21:38

And definitely one of the, the, the most poignant moments of my Christianity, you know, life. Um, just, just an honor of just having the, the ability that God. Cared so much about the two of us

Omar: 21:53

Yes.

Charlie: 21:53

That he made sure that that happened in such a way that we've got a story to tell for the rest of our lives. Yes. And And you can't sit there and you can't look at me with a straight face and ever Tell me again that God doesn't exist.

Omar: 22:07

Yeah,

Charlie: 22:08

because I've. I've got proof.

Omar: 22:10

Amen. You've got evidence.

Charlie: 22:12

I've got, I've got living proof.

Omar: 22:14

Yes.

Charlie: 22:15

Amen.

Omar: 22:16

Amen.

Charlie: 22:17

So that's kind of the story.

Omar: 22:18

Yeah. No, that's awesome story of, uh, I think about even like, uh, um, going back to the beginning, like your anger, your rage of wanting to beat this guy up.'cause he was smiling and like, well, what are you smiling about? And then even the, the, the racial tension. That, you know, that exists. Like in, in cities, you know, I'm from Chicago. You, you still got, I think they said it's still one of the most segregated cities, like in the, in the United States. Uh, but God's hand was even on that. And um, man, thank you for sharing that. But also, um, I know you mentioned chiros. You're a chaplain. C can you tell, uh, uh, for for our listeners, uh, what is Kairos? Um, what is it that they do and how could they learn more about this? Um, ministry,

Charlie: 22:57

Kairos is a Greek word, and in the Greek there are two words for the two Greek words for the word time. There's chronos time and chronos time is it's quarter to nine. Kairos time is your wife is pregnant and the doctor tells you that the baby's gonna be due on December 1st, fine. And you go home and you take care of business. Your wife wakes up one day on October 15th and says, honey, my water just broke. The baby's coming. You look at the calendar, says, honey, he's not due for another two weeks. Go back to bed. Well. No, it's kairos time. It's an exact moment in time, and it's the exact moment in time that we're talking about. When we bring 36 men in off the yard, we look for the worst of the worst. We look for the shot collars, we look for the gang members. We look for the drug users and the drug sellers, and we bring them into this kairos. We bring 36 of them in and we just love on them. We. We introduce them to the love of Jesus Christ through a number of ways. Cookies is one of the ways we, we go through and doing two yards. We go through 5,000 dozen cookies. Wow. In four days. That's 86,000 cookies.

Omar: 24:24

No way.

Charlie: 24:25

Yeah. By the, by by Saturday afternoon. You mentioned the word cookie to one of the guys and they, they don't even want us ever see another cookie again.

Omar: 24:35

Right.

Charlie: 24:36

And we, you know, and we, and, and we just, and we, we have this program that we do. It's, it's one talk. Done in 10 parts from 10 different people over that, that, that all fit together in a, in a, a progressive light. That, that leads these men to realizing that they need Jesus Christ.

Omar: 24:56

Amen.

Charlie: 24:57

And they do it through love. And we do it through letters. We have letters that we, that we write to them. I did Kairos in 1994, and I still have one of the, the, the letters that was written to me from a 9-year-old girl who had some severe back deformation and they were gonna have to operate on her and. She couldn't even sit in a chair or anything, and, and they, they actually made a bed for her on the floor on a pallet so she could be raised up off the floor so she could use the floor as a desk. And this 9-year-old girl was writing letters to us, convicts. She wrote one to me, telling me her story that she's gonna get operated on and there's a good chance that she may never walk again. At nine years old and then she told me she's prayed for me.

Omar: 25:47

Hmm.

Charlie: 25:51

How can a 9-year-old girl care about some convict that she doesn't even know? Yeah. She's got enough problems of her own. Yes. She doesn't worry about me. Yeah. And she was praying for me that I would come and accept Jesus Christ. Wow. I kept that letter, that letter that letter's in, in a very safe space with a couple other really special things. But I'll never forget that letter. I mean, it was, and these guys will take these letters and they will. They will open up the first one, we, we give it to'em'cause we kind of surprise'em with it. And they start looking in this bag and there's 80 or 90 letters in this bag and they're all sealed and they're all addressed specifically to each individual guy. They got their, their name on it. This is Joe Smith. And the letter's sealed. And if you know anything about prison, you never, ever get sealed mail.

Omar: 26:46

No.

Charlie: 26:46

Even if it's legal mail, you have to open it in front of a co. These are all sealed. No one's ever read them before and they're just to you. There's guys that get these 80 or 90 letters that haven't gotten mail in 15 or 20 years. And all of a sudden they've got this bag full of letters written to them, people praying for them, people thinking about them, people, you know, giving them, you know love.

Omar: 27:14

Yeah.

Charlie: 27:14

And they'll read three or four or five of them and they'll push the bag away. And, and, and because first of all, crying, you know, you can't cry in prison.

Omar: 27:24

I know, right.

Charlie: 27:24

You know, it's

27:25

forbidden.

Charlie: 27:26

And then, and, and, and, and here's the problem with the Christian lifestyle. It's, it's really hard on the image management, man. I'm telling you what

Omar: 27:33

that's for sure.

Charlie: 27:34

You come become a Christian. You're, you turn into a cry, baby. Most of us do. I am. I know.

Omar: 27:38

Yeah. Well, I'm getting there. Yeah. It, it, uh, it is been serving the Lord. And uh, it's funny, uh, you say that'cause I've been praying for God like to soften my heart so that I could have be more, uh. Em, uh, empathetic show more, uh, empathy.

Charlie: 27:50

Yeah. Yeah,

Omar: 27:50

yeah. And, uh, he's definitely been doing that. So the waterworks have been coming more frequently, uh, for myself.

Charlie: 27:56

So. Um, and what they'll do is they'll push'em away and then they'll, they'll tell us that I, I, I couldn't read all of them. And what they'll do is they will save them and they will open one a day, so they'll last longer.'cause they don't want to get to the end. They don't want'em to stop, so they savor them and then they'll talk about it for a couple of days. What this, what this, what these letters meant to them. And it's just, it, it changes them. Mm-hmm. It rips their heart right out their chest is what it does. Yeah. And they sit there and, you know, they, you guys don't play fair. You guys don't play fair, man. That that ain't right. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, so this is kind of what we do with Kairos. We probably, out of 36 guys that we'll bring in there on an average. Probably 20 will accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. I mean, and, and, and stay.

Omar: 28:50

Yeah.

Charlie: 28:50

You know, because we have the saying in prison, born again, till out again.

Omar: 28:54

Yeah.

Charlie: 28:54

And, and that's a real thing.

Omar: 28:55

Yeah.

Charlie: 28:56

But you know what? God's in charge of that too.

Omar: 28:59

Yeah.

Charlie: 28:59

So, um, maybe they were playing. But I'll guarantee you God isn't.

Omar: 29:04

Oh yeah.

Charlie: 29:05

He ain't playing.

Omar: 29:06

Oh yeah. Gotta grab a hold of woman. Turn their lives around.

Charlie: 29:08

So that's, so that's what we do at Kairos. And, and I've been doing this for a really a long time and, and, um, I've seen a lot of men and I've seen a, I've seen a lot of miracles.

Omar: 29:18

Yeah.

Charlie: 29:18

I've seen a lot of miracles.

Omar: 29:20

Amen. You, in your life is specifically, you know, personally, I guess

Charlie: 29:24

Yes. I'm one of those

Omar: 29:24

miracles.

Charlie: 29:26

I'm one of those miracles. Jesus's first miracle was changing water. Into fine wine, taking ordinary and turning it into extraordinary. And he's still doing the same thing today with people.

Omar: 29:42

Amen.

Charlie: 29:43

Turning them into extraordinary people. So this is what I get to witness on a daily basis.

Omar: 29:48

Yeah.

Charlie: 29:48

People say, why do you go in? I says,'cause I like to watch miracles.

Omar: 29:51

Amen.

Charlie: 29:52

And I get to see'em all the time.

Omar: 29:53

Yes.

Charlie: 29:54

And he says, when's the last time you saw a miracle? I never saw one. Come to prison now? Yes. I'll, I'll show you 15 of them. Mm. You know, so,

Omar: 30:02

Hey man. Where, where can people go? Is there a website?

Charlie: 30:05

Go to kairos.org.

Omar: 30:06

Mm-hmm.

Charlie: 30:07

And you can, and, and, and we have, Kairos is in every state, most every state, and you can get involved with this Kairos program. Uh, there's instructions on how to do that and how to reach out to your local, uh, kairos, uh, council that there's, there's usually one in every state. Uh, it's, it's really better if you're closer to a prison than farther away from a prison, because I'm gonna warn you, if you go to a Kairos four day program, it's three and a half days, four days. Nobody, nobody goes to one program.

Omar: 30:41

Mm-hmm.

Charlie: 30:43

You go to one. You're done. Yeah. You, you, you, you're now signed up for 50 of them because that's just you, you sit there and you see, and you, you see Jesus Christ.

Omar: 30:55

Yes.

Charlie: 30:55

Alive and well and working in the hearts and you're like, I need more.

Omar: 30:58

Yeah.

Charlie: 30:59

I need more. So, so what you wind up doing, even if you haven't been in prison ever before. You wound up be, you wind up becoming a lifer, you become, become a lifer of kairos.

Omar: 31:11

Yes.

Charlie: 31:12

And, and what Jesus Christ does in the prisons.

Omar: 31:14

Amen. So for, for those, that's, uh, KAIO, um, K-A-I-R-O-S.

Charlie: 31:20

Kairos,

Omar: 31:20

OG.

Charlie: 31:22

There you

Omar: 31:22

go. K-A-I-R-O-S.org. Yes. So yeah, definitely go on there and see what they're doing. I see if there's one, uh, uh, locally, I know, uh, there are, uh, throughout many states, I believe it was 21 states, if I'm not mistaken,

Charlie: 31:33

around there. Yeah. There's, we're in, we're in 12 countries.

Omar: 31:36

Yeah.

Charlie: 31:36

So if, even if you're in another country, there's, there's a chance you might be able to hook up there.

Omar: 31:40

Amen.

Charlie: 31:40

But there's a checkin, you know, look around. Yes. And, uh. God will use you.

Omar: 31:46

Yes.

Charlie: 31:46

God will get you to, God will get you to the place you want to go. And, uh, you, you wanna be involved with your church, but you, but, and that's a big thing. Yeah. It's non-denominational. It's, uh, it is. You don't have, it's not one denomination or another. In fact. It's Jesus Christ and Him crucified, and everything else stays at the door.

Omar: 32:04

Yes.

Charlie: 32:05

That's all we're, that's all we're bringing. You don't wanna, you wanna bring your denominational arguments in. We don't want'em.

Omar: 32:11

Right?

Charlie: 32:12

All we want is to know that Jesus Christ and Him crucified and that he loves you.

Omar: 32:16

Yes.

Charlie: 32:16

That's all we care about.

Omar: 32:18

Amen. Amen. Brother. You know what, Charlie, uh, Charlie, the chaplain. Thank you so very much for your time. I know you were getting ready to go head back up to your room, but you took this time to sit down with me and, uh,

Charlie: 32:28

this is

Omar: 32:28

important. Share your story. Oh, yes, it is.

Charlie: 32:29

This is important.

Omar: 32:30

Yes.

Charlie: 32:31

People need to hear that testimony. Scripture tells us in, in revelations 12 verse 11, that, that we overcome him, Satan. By the blood of the lamb and by the power of our testimony.

Omar: 32:44

Yes,

Charlie: 32:45

that testimony I tell a lot of people about and some of the most ardent Christ following men on earth. Are amazed at how God worked that out. And I just got to be blessed enough to be the one that, that he used to, to bring that testimony about. And that testimony has brought a lot of people to Christ.

Omar: 33:07

Yes, and it will continue. God willing, when this goes out through the airwaves, may it bring many more. In Jesus' name.

Charlie: 33:13

In Jesus' name.

Omar: 33:14

You know Charlie usually to ask my guests if they could close us out in a prayer, would you mind doing that for us?

Charlie: 33:19

My Lord and my God. How honored we are to have you here. Lord, I pray right now that you are the guest of honor in this room. As we sit that, as you hear our words together, Lord, that you sit there and and smile as they smell as a sweet aroma to your ears and, and that we have the fragrance of those being saved by your word. Lord, we lift up this opportunity that it would go out and reach so many people out there dying to hear. What Jesus Christ is doing, not only in the prisons, but can be doing in your lives, their lives as well, Lord. So we lift up these, these listeners here of this podcast and we pray, father, that you'll bless them in such a way that they will sit there and say, I know my li. I know my Lord is real. And Lord, we just pray tonight that we lift up again, these men that are on death row that they would. Get to the point where they would accept Jesus Christ and realize that yeah, maybe they'll get executed in, in the near future, but alls they're really doing is going home.

Omar: 34:24

Yes,

Charlie: 34:25

because they now know that Jesus is bringing them home. So, Lord, we lift them up. We pray that you'll save them. We'll pray that you get rid of the death penalty, Lord, because the death penalty says. That you can't change men.

Omar: 34:38

Hmm.

Charlie: 34:39

And we know that that's not true.

Omar: 34:41

That's right.

Charlie: 34:42

You change people all the time. So, Lord, we lift up all those tonight. We're listening and we pray that they will sleep with God tonight knowing that you're on on duty. It's in Jesus name. I pray I pass out this thing to on Kairos. I pass them out. Every Kairos I got, yeah, I print'em up.

Omar: 35:00

Okay. It's a little blue piece of paper. It's about yay big, I don't know,

Charlie: 35:04

five by eight, six by eight. And it says, good morning. This is God. I will be handling all of your problems today. And I don't need your help.

Omar: 35:17

Nope.

Charlie: 35:17

Those guys take that papers and they paste them on the walls. They. Them on the bunks up above them.

Omar: 35:22

Yeah.

Charlie: 35:22

And they, they go out and they just, they pat them Lord, them. I'm counting on this.

Omar: 35:27

Yes.

Charlie: 35:30

So, there you go, brother.

Omar: 35:32

Thank you. No. Hey, you know what? Thank you very much for your time. I wanna plug, uh, Kairos again, kairos org. I know they minister on the inside and also on the outside. I believe they, uh,

Charlie: 35:40

there's a Kairos outside as well

Omar: 35:42

for, for the, for the women and also I believe it was Torch, uh, for the youth.

Charlie: 35:45

Yes.

Omar: 35:46

Uh, so with that, we're gonna get ready to sign out. Matthew four 16 reads, the people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned alongside my guest, Charlie, the chaplain. My name's Omar Calvillo, and we are Wrong To Strong.

Charlie: 36:06

Love.